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Post by flagnine1 on Feb 19, 2011 17:54:52 GMT -5
**Warning** long with lots of math
I agree with doc we need to establish a baseline first. so lets look at all possible money making actions available day one (on a 3 shift day for sustainability).
Whoring: 2g/shift for 3 shifts = 6g per day Pimping: 3g/shift for 3 shifts = 9g per day Supervising: 2-4g/shift for 2 shifts = 4-8g per day
so currently the average daily income is about 7g. even with a 3g upkeep per day that's a 4g profit each day. Which means with a starting capital of 100g you can start milking for an extra 10ishg a day.
maxed out T1 classes currently make:
Whoring: 17g/shift for 3 shifts = 51g per day Faith Healer: (haven't looked at it yet but you guys said about he same as whore) = 50g per day Farm Animal: 1 milk(no cream) per day = 10g per day
So between these we have a average income of 37g per day. This can probably be lowered lets say to 10g a shift. The daily average is now 24g.
here is the reason I want to lower it. maxed T2
Cowgirl: 1 milk/cream per day = 38g per day
To maintain an equivalent T2 Whore would make about 190g a day. where as for the lowered per shift income the daily income of a t 2 whore would be closer to 127 gold.
Most of the classes should have ways to make money off of them, Even if it is only a little more then there daily requirements. This would help slow down the game a bit in the beginning. From here we can now establish a value system for every thing else in the game.
So lets say I want to make it so the First additional slave I buy truly available at day 10. so how much do I have at day 10? using Starting gold+ (average daily income x 10 days) - (Upkeep x 10 days) = total estimated gold. Now we take total estimated gold and multiply it by .75 as we want about 25% of our current gold to remain after the purchase. So with 100g starting + (7g per day x 10 days) - (3g per day upkeep x 10 days) = 140g so a basic slave should cost about 105g. This is total after action price. So we take about half that to be our starting bid price. So for this example start bid price of a basic slave is around 50g.
As for room additions and upgrades. Room upgrades and extra rooms should be about equivalent in price as they both exponentially increase you income. And I would say that each be in the area of 2 basic slaves, so around 200g a piece. But I also think that when you sell you old house any upgrades made to it should reflect in the selling price. But considering how much the T2 classes are estimated to be making per day, the houses are going to stack appropriately namely with you second house being upwards of 3-4000g and the final house being upwards of 30-50000g.
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tantor
Junior Member
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Post by tantor on Feb 19, 2011 20:43:38 GMT -5
I agree mostly with flagnine1's numbers but I would reduce the cost of adding a room to 100 simply because once you buy your second slave you will have around 35 gp according to his math. the second girl though would have to stay in the master bedroom and therefor be unable to be accurately trained in a class. To get the additional room it would take about 17 days if you focus on nothing besides earning money if the room costs 200 and only about a week at 100. The amount of time might be less if you were luckey enough to get the whore class with one of the girls.
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Post by flagnine1 on Feb 20, 2011 4:35:59 GMT -5
ah missed that thought you started with 2 rooms. thanks
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Post by alucardnoir on Feb 20, 2011 6:57:38 GMT -5
Your math seams sound flagnine1, the only problem is the probability of a slave becoming a whore/faith healer etc. sometimes it happens very quickly, other times it seams to take ages, so there are no actual guarantees of you having 100g to spend by day 10 unless you just horde money. This is of course ignoring sickness.
PS. i'd like to know what effect something like a bed or how clean a room is would have on a girls ability to make money, and also what you would consider to be a good starting price for a slave you are auctioning off
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Post by flagnine1 on Feb 20, 2011 16:01:31 GMT -5
I didn't add in any extra money from the whore classes to the first slave purchase. so getting whore in say the first 2 days would just get you a little extra money. sickness is a low enough chance that it can be ignored last play thru first girl didn't get sick til like day 20. and considering you can complete sugar's quest in 2 shifts its basically a non issue.
the bed and cleanliness lower negative effects on the girls thus increasing up time and productivity.
First I would look at sex preference. And with sex slave being the baseline at 50g, and with futa and les potions costing 100g I would add about 25g to starting auction, so 75g. This should receive a small bonus for virginity, probably in the 25g-50g area.
Next I would look at learned classes (numbers here are for T1 classes only) and make them into 3 categories either by potential earning, by cultural preference, or by training difficulty. In potential earnings a slave with whore class is worth more then a slave with maid. In cultural preference maid would worth more then a whore. and in training difficulty house pet would be worth more. Either way we go on it I would say along the lines of +100g for low desirable, +200 for mid, and +300 for high to the starting bid.
Next I would look at other permanent effects on the girl piercings, tattoos, brands, and status effects. Piercings are a positive so give a bonus to starting bid. Since each piercing cost 5g they will raise the starting bid 3g a piece. Tattoos are hit or miss so unsure of how to work them. Brands are negative until you get your reputation up. Think of them as your signature on a piece of art. The more popular you get the more they become worth. Status effects are again one of those by effect things as some might be wanted and some might not.
as for actual skill points I think 3points to 1g is a good ratio. only sex and classes add this. The other thing is that negative or certain skills can lower the price. Lets say that if any of your welfare or slave stats are below 30 they receive a penalty. I would suggest -1g for every 2 point one of these skills is below 30.
So without getting into T2 classes the most I could see a slave going for with what I posted above would be about 1000g starting. the minimum would be 0g starting.
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tantor
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by tantor on Feb 20, 2011 17:15:11 GMT -5
I think virginity should not effect pricing. Girls just arriving should have a way higher chance of being a virgin then one that has been trained. people buying slaves after training will probably not be interested in one with the exception of specific girl requests(quests). I could easy see it actually hurting sales because she is not trained in that area.
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Post by docclox on Feb 21, 2011 3:45:31 GMT -5
I think virginity should not effect pricing. Girls just arriving should have a way higher chance of being a virgin then one that has been trained. people buying slaves after training will probably not be interested in one with the exception of specific girl requests(quests). I could easy see it actually hurting sales because she is not trained in that area. I don't know - add 10%, maybe 20% for a virgin. That way a girl going coppers, the extra is barely noticeable, but if she sells for 2000, you get a nice little bonus.
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Post by milkyboon on Feb 21, 2011 7:20:40 GMT -5
But there is not much use for a virgin, except for the real estate quest, and she pays peanuts.
This game need to add more quests for a virgin and more lust controlling items..
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Post by missinglynx on Feb 21, 2011 7:34:04 GMT -5
I think virginity should not effect pricing. Girls just arriving should have a way higher chance of being a virgin then one that has been trained. people buying slaves after training will probably not be interested in one with the exception of specific girl requests(quests). I could easy see it actually hurting sales because she is not trained in that area. But with the purity potion, one could train a girl to max out vaginal sex and still sell her as a virgin.
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Post by flagnine1 on Feb 21, 2011 8:36:36 GMT -5
First virginal tends to be a positive trait for girls in most cultures. So I believe that it should be looked upon positively monetarily (even if just slightly).
Not sure if it is a bug or not but assistants can train your girl to max sex slave and maintain her virginity. Plus the purity potion is crippling expensive if I remember right so not very useful unless you need a quick virgin for a quest.
The Volcano Joe quest/nightmare that was suggested requires a virgin and the suggested magical girl class requires a virgin. Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head. So it may become more use in the future.
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Post by firesflair on Feb 22, 2011 23:31:24 GMT -5
how about a tax system, instead of upkeep, something like 10%, that way if you only make 10g you only pay 1g in taxes, if you make 100 you pay 10g. if it's not too complicated (and if needed), use tax brackets. that way if some one moves slowly they won't get stuck because they have no money, or if they sell some slaves they won't be getting taxed more then they can earn.
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tantor
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by tantor on Feb 23, 2011 2:38:10 GMT -5
upkeep makes more sense then taxes because it represents the day to day expenses required for training slaves. most notably food to feed yourself and the others in your house, it also included the paint and supplies in the art room and other inconsequential items that are used day to day. Mid-game on upkeep is barely noticeable and is a lot less then 10% of your income. Although taxes might be implemented one the senate and the rest of the government stuff are implemented.
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Post by alucardnoir on Feb 25, 2011 1:06:39 GMT -5
Tax idea would simplify the game but it dose not make any logical sense (at least not when compared with upkeep).
It also seams we have a new slave selling price, this time of 1000, it's true it's only for t1 slaves but still a significant reduction from both my model and the actual model currently used. After some thought i have come to the conclusion that the problem with deciding what a slave's price should be can't be decided until we have an understanding of both revenue based on tier and not until we decide what statistics are actually of importance, as a result i'm first proposing a system of tiers for slaves based not only on what we have but also on what's been disused on the forum. Please comment
First 2(of 5) slots are always the same 3rd slot can be either sex slave or lesbian slave when bought, and sex/lesbian/futanari when sold (should it count when calculation a slave's net worth?) Slot's 4 and 5 are divided into 3 tiers (types) - T1 - primary (not all make money Whores do/ Artists don't) - T2 - secondary ( still not necessarily making money but if they do how much more then T1 should they do) - T3 - special tier - i'm thinking transformations
Also i'd like to add a few more questions 1. how much money should a slave get when performing a job and not having the right T1 specialization compared with the T1 slave? 2. presuming a slave has only needs one T1 to go to T2, should T1 make money (eg. farm animal - cowgirl)? 3. presuming a slave need 2 different T1 to have one go to T2 should both make money or should it be customizable ( whore and artist makes courtesan - only one make money, should bot have the ability or should it just be random [artist could make paintings and so on])? 4. should t3 be exclusively transformations bought from potions or in the future scrapyard or should they be trainable? 5. should t3 have an increase income or should they just add to the slaves net worth?
Edit: Just for monetary comparisons T0 - a slave being whored makes 2 T1 - a whore being whored makes 17 (T0*8.5) T2 - a cowgirl being milked and making cream makes roughly 166 a sift on a 3 sift a day schedule (T1*10) T3 - not yet known if any
T1 - T2 seams ok, as dose T0 - T1, but taken in contest T0-T2 seams a bit overkill
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Post by flagnine1 on Feb 25, 2011 4:16:09 GMT -5
The 100g selling price is a maxed out T1 slave your looking more at the 500 -700 range. Using my average shift income below I could easily see these feasibly double for equivalent T2 and quadruple for equivalent T3. But I feel this is a little low. Lets say for now that a maxed out T2 slave final sale price is roughly 3000g, and the equivalent T3 slave 6000g.
I wouldn't I wouldn't really look at T2 average income yet as the only class we have is cowgirl and the entire farm tree income scale is wacky. We could always fix the scale of income to get something right the only set number we have is that it takes about 1g to feed an average adult human for 1 day.
So lets set a limit on our T1 classes I want to say that they can earn and average of 30g a day. That means that whoring would go down to 10g a shift from 17. Farm classes are exempt from this criteria as the work required lower should make a great yield later. as for artists and craft classes at class % > 50% they can start making items that take x shifts to complete and sell for 10g per shift to complete. Thus an artist takes 3 shifts to make a painting that painting can sell for 30g. As for service classes (maids) their value probably comes from there utility (supporting other slaves).
T3 classes are the classes that represent the mastery of one aspect of the tree. Transformations end up there because a furry catgirl is as closer to being a cat as possible without being a cat, and so on. It also represents what should be the most powerful classes most of which are difficult, time consuming and or expensive to get.
Tiers I suggest per shift: T0 - 2g (only whoring all others 0) T1 - 10g (x5 over T0) T2 - 30g (x3 over T1; x15 over T0) T3 - 90g (x3 over T2; x15 over T1; x45 over T0)
With these Income and sell values it should be feasible to get the final house (30,000 to 50,000g) within the first year (game time).
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Post by alucardnoir on Feb 26, 2011 5:54:00 GMT -5
Well, now that we have at least a basic income strategy based on the tier system we should discuss what statistics should be important in deciding a slaves price.
Slave type a. sex slave b. lesbian slave c. futanari slave (transformation)
Virgin a. Yes b. No
Tier 1 slots (maid, whore, artist) - positive if it is only one, nothing or negative if there are 2? adds half if the second slot is it's T2, nothing if it is it's T3
Tier 2 slots (catgirl, cowgirl, painter?) - positive if it is only one, nothing or negative if there are 2? adds half if the second free slot is it's T3
Tier 3 slots (real catgirl, real cowgirl, great painter?, great chef?) - positive if it is only one, nothing or negative if there are 2?
Tattoos
Brands (brands have been propose to have a bad effect on price with low rep and become a plus with ever increasing rep)
Piercings
Native/prime
Talent point *0.1 (10p - 1G)
Loli a. 12yr b. 13yr c. 14yr d. 15yr
10. young adult(this is actually based more on the marriage age in most countries then on the age on consent) a. 16yr b. 17yr c. 18yr d. 19yr e. 20yr * 21yr you start getting visits from officials to see if your slaves are fit to be released
Breast size A B C D (i'm thinking this could be the natural limit, over this you need to use the lactation pearls) DD DDD DDDD
Lactation
Based on the above mentioned Tier revenue stream a house costing 10.000G stops sounding that outlandish, so the questions are:
1. What did I miss, what else should account for price?
2. If the cheapest houses are 10.000G with one slave room and 2 master bedrooms, how much should a fully trained T3 slave be? (current bid 6.000)
3. It was proposed that a T3 be *2 as expensive as a T2 which in itself is *2/*3 as expensive as a T1,T1 that goes up to *10 a T0 slave, do you agree? if so please post regarding prime and native modifiers.
4. Current discussions regarding starting bin for out-of-the-pit slaves is at 50 (a bit on the low side) presuming there T0 and neither prime nor loli do you agree with the price or do you think it should be higher?
When thinking about price please do not forget these are not the end prices but the points where bids start. And presuming a transformation potion or scrapyard operation costs 1000 - a futanari t3 slave based on transformation would need to be at least 2100 to make for the expenses on buying the slave and the above mentioned potions and surgeries/procedures.
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