Slave Value

[daisy_strike]

The current value of slaves is obviously way over pricing them.
Current Formula
//Primes worth more
if (sv.girlPrime == true && player == false) {
total = total + 50;
}
//Girl has special Class 1
if (sv.girlSpecial1 != 999) {
total = total + 25;
}
//Girl has special Class 2
if (sv.girlSpecial2 != 999) {
total = total + 40;
}
//Girl is a lesbian
if (sv.girlSexType == 2) {
total = total + 5;
}
//Girl is a futanari
else if (sv.girlSexType == 3) {
total = total + 10;
}
//training is worth something
total = total + (sv.girlSex1 / 2);
total = total + (sv.girlSex2 / 2);
total = total + (sv.girlSex3 / 2);

total = total + (sv.girlSpecial11 / 2);
total = total + (sv.girlSpecial12 / 2);
total = total + (sv.girlSpecial13 / 2);

total = total + (sv.girlSpecial21 / 2);
total = total + (sv.girlSpecial22 / 2);
total = total + (sv.girlSpecial23 / 2);

total = total * 5;

Anyone have any suggestions on how to modify.

Daisy

[swordwind]

Slack, Flag and I all like something like +1 gold gold per basic class skill point, +2 for an intermediate class, and + 4 for an advanced class. Add this to the base value, and possibly give bonus value for mastering a class.

Slack believed part of the code would be something like this:

skill%*<classtype>+skill%*<classtype>+skill%*<classtype>+quality of slave

[adamwest69]

I actually think slaves are underpriced. I think it would be better to raise the price so that the trainer is limited at the beginning as to how many he can train. Just starting out, you should not be able to afford more than one, or at most two. Making them more valuable would give people more to work towards. A cap might be interesting too... as in you need a licence to own a set number of slaves, the license could cost a set amount of gold to upgrade... something else to work towards. Just a suggestion... which in retrospect might have been a better place to put this, but regardless, I don't think lowering the price is the answer.

[swordwind]

Eh, sorry for the late reply adam.

The problem Daisy was worrying about wasn't that slaves are too expensive to buy. Rather, the issue was that (at the time of the initial post) slave could be sold for an uncomfortably large sum. Lamentably, because of other projects, I haven't enjoyed this game recently, so I'm unsure as to whether or not steps have been taken to rectify this issue.

[docclox]

The problem is that the price is determined by auction. So if slave girls sell for less, then when a girl shows up with good stats, you can buy her too cheaply. On the other hand, if the better girls are appropriately expensive, then player-trained girls are going to bring a similar price.

There's a few ways around the problem. To a certain extent you can manage player profit margins with tax and commission at the auction. However there are limits on how much you can charge before it starts to seem blatantly unfair to the players. Daisy's already doing this, and at about the right level, I'd have said.

Another way is to make the auction cheat, so that NPCs bid harder against the player than they do against each other. I'm not at all keen on this one; once you notice the behavior, it's fairly obviously the game cheating, and that can kill a game for a lot of people.

The best way (IMHO obviously) is to make the trainer's expenses and/or risk match more closely the profit they stand to make. Currently there's no costs for the player apart from the initial price at auction, one-off costs for rooms and/or property and any storage time in the pen.

If there was a daily upkeep charge, and (ideally) some sort of expenditure for different training activities, then the profits wouldn't seem so large. You'd need a lot of it to get out of debt with the guild You would need to be able to go into debt, though, since starting trainers wouldn't be able to afford to spend 1500 gold to train a girl that would sell for 2000 (for example).

It would be quite hard to justify per-activity charges as things stand however. You could have equipment wear out, and have repair costs to fix them up, but that adds a complication to the code. The simpler approach is to say you get a weekly upkeep bill to cover wear and tear on the facilities. You could also make carpentry costs a lot more expensive, and let the player rent facilities from the guild for more exotic training options. If nothing else, we'd all appreciate having our own music room after being charged 20gp a session to use the guild music room

Charging upkeep for slaves is is easier to justify. They have to eat, after all. Established players can probably reduce this if they keep farmgirls active and make use of some of that Real Estate - but they need to house the farmers, and that cuts into potential profits.

So my suggestions would be:

• A daily upkeep charge for slavegirls. Guild pens fees would be in addition to this, when applicable.
  
• A weekly upkeep charge from the premises. A basic fee based on the size of the premises, plus a per room charge, varying by room type.
  
• Money lending facilities, to allow the player to go into debt in order to realise an eventual profit. This could be via the guild, loan sharks, or both. The guild could lend moderate amounts at reasonable rates. The loan sharks would lend more, but at exorbitant interest
  
• Make rooms considerably more expensive
  
• Allow the player to rent guild rooms for training.
  

Anyway, just a few thoughts in passing

[edit]

Could charge support for player and assistants, too. Catgirls got to eat, tinned tuna don't come cheap in Magmell

[flagnine1]

I really like that Idea of making rooms cost more to make and being able to rent rooms from the guild.

[daisy_strike]

I also really like the idea of renting rooms from the guild, and letting guild trainers spend special time with your girl for rare abilities and classes. Another great idea.

Daisy

[swordwind]

I don't have a problem with anything you've said. Many of those suggestions have gained popular support at various threads throughout the board, in fact. For example, there was a somewhat lengthy diversion in which we were debating the different types of meal plans we would wish to institute, as a type of basic upkeep cost.

[docclox]

A few more thoughts on the subject.

If slaves have a high training cost, then keeping some of them is going to get expensive. Whores pay for themselves, of course, and fighters probably should be expensive to keep on staff. But there ought to be a good way to "park" house pets and musicians so that the player can keep them relatively cheaply. Otherwise the "Harem" player is going to have his work cut out.

Possibly training costs drop dramatically once a girl is fully trained. That's still going to make obedience and the welfare stats a constant drain. however.

Maybe there should be a cheaper but far less effective training option for keeping available for most rooms. This would have the added bonus that players who don't want to borrow from the guild can still train a girl - it's just going to take a long time.

Another thing might be to make obedience become less volatile over time. So to start with it changes farily easily, but can swing up and down. The longer the girl knows the trainer however, the more these changes damp down. So a well trained girl over a long time would tend to stay obedient, and a badly trained one would reach a point where the problem was very difficult to correct, and the best thing would probably be to sell her.

That would have the effect of minimising obedience upkeep for harem slaves, and also provide some benefit for the player who took the slow and steady approach.

Again, just some passing thoughts.

[swordwind]

To be fair, maintaining extraneous slaves shouldn't be too cheap, either. I'm fine with a sliding scale of upkeep, though (say, different meal plans, with the cheaper ones reducing the amount of skill experience gained through various chores or trainings. Well, not meal plans. But something of the sort).

I like the obedience idea. It's logical, realistic, and balanced.

[azrail]

Heres something to consider. You could have the slaves value vary by what effects they have.
Like have it raise if shes still a virgin or lactating and lower if she has tetanus or in love with player. Also for things like the slave being broken you could have it raise the value or lower it depending on buyers fetishes.

Food for thought.

[milkyboon]

Im actually wondering if the slave are grossly underpriced. I can buy slave at like 100 gold? And most items have an average price of more than 50 gold? I can buy another slave if i milk for like 10-15 times?

Im not sure if Im reading the code correctly, but does it mean
if all skill of slave = 0,
does it mean that the value of slave will also = 0?

I suggest the slave have some basic value, like the value of their lives. Lets say the basic value is 300 gold. So if my slave dies, my 300 gold investment will be gone. If you sell the slave, you get back your basic capital.

At least this makes players appreciate them more. Quality > Quantity. Too many cheap slaves around.

[shiar]

But with slaves crawling out of the pit on a daily, if not hourly, basis, there are lots of "fresh" slaves that need to be broken and trained. Life is cheap when there's a constant influx of people, monsters all around and an inimical habitat. Mind you, the fact that a single mint leaf costs 2-5x more than an (admittedly low quality) slave seems a bit odd.

From what I understand, the girl will be valued at 0, but since it's an auction someone will still bid, they'll just start and stay low. If nothing else, some of the more, shall we say, "colourful" denizens of Magmell might decide to put "rift-chicken" on the menu...or the guild could throw them into a green cutting party.

There may be plenty of manpower and vegetarian meals, but metal and the like is harder to come by.

Just my 2 cents.

[ctwo]

I don't think starting slaves are too cheap. You have to train them for quite a while before you start making money with any slave. Sure you can milk a girl 10-15 times to get enough cash to buy a new slave. How much did it cost you to get that girl ready to be milked? At least 100 gold for the pill, and how many days of effort to get her ready to be milked?

I'm thinking that well trained slaves should be worth more than badly trained slaves with exotic skills. To facilitate this why not change the base calculations to 2*(skill-50) where skill is the relavant skill or trait? This way a 100% obediance is rewarded, and a 40% obediance actually subtracts from the girl's value.
Maybe modify the number a little and make it 2*(skill-40) to reward players for high values and allow for more credit in the middle values? 50's are an accepted range, with anything above 80 being truely exceptional?

Probably lust(?) shouldn't be counted as a stat for value, or it should be treated as an absolute value (i.e. a slave with high virtue is just as valueable as a slave that is a sex crazed slut).

Happyness and Sanity might be able to be dropped for value as well. Sanity is its own reward and a base line kind of thing. Everybody assumes your slaves will be sane. I don't think most slave owners really care about happyness.

[flashnovice]

I like being able to have a zero or small upkeep if I limit myself to a small number of slaves. In some games you can dig yourself an insurmountable hole if you don't yet know from experimentation what the tipping point is.